Saturday, January 19, 2008

See Margaret Cho Live Feb. 20 and Feb. 21

Margaret has been subpoenaed along with her agent, assistant, CPA, and others to appear at the Labor Commissioner's office (320 W. Fourth St, Suite #430, downtown Los Angeles) on Feb. 20 and Feb. 21 at 8:30 am.

This is the hearing in which she is attempting to avoid paying me the commissions she admits to owing me by suing me for acting as an illegal Talent Agency. Or, as her attorney, Howard King says:
Cho is hoping for a Hail Mary pass - that she can convince some Labor Commissioner to terminate the contract with her ex business partner so she can pocket the money she owes instead of paying it out to the woman that made her famous.
King didn't actually say that about Cho, he said it about the band, The Killers, in a similar lawsuit in which he is representing the ex manager of the band.

Here's more of what he wrote in his lawsuit against The Killers (I made a few changes):

Flush with the rewards of spectacular artistic and commercial achievement, the members of multi-platinum recording artist "The Killers" Margaret Cho should be celebrating those triumphs with the producer and manager who guided them her to stardom. Instead, influenced by the scheming of a trusted advisor, the band Cho expediently and unceremoniously severed a dedicated and diligent manager from the fortune [s]he helped create.

An undiscovered, uncut, rough diamond has no commercial value. The same is true for countless of talented but inexperienced rock and roll bands comedians. Assisted by the vision and guidance of their her manager, Braden Merrick Karen Taussig, The Killers are Cho is the exception. Unfortunately, the Killers Cho chose to turn their her backs on two written contracts and years of unswerving efforts by Merrick Taussig to discover, polish, publicize, and bring fame and prosperity to the band comedian.

With the eager assistance of a lawyer promoter plotting to become their her manager, The Killers have Cho has taken the money they owe she owes Merrick Taussig and his management company and stuffed it into their her own jeans. Rather than expressing gratitude, heaping praise or paying the commissions they she agreed to pay, The Killers have Cho has callously kicked Merrick Taussig to the nose-bleed seats. This is The Killer's Cho’s idea of the reward for Merrick's Taussig’s key role in helping them her become one of the most successful[, prolific and socially relevant] new rock band comedians of this century.

Chances are pretty good that you'll win at least one of these, right Mr. King? This is beautifully written, btw. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The whole suit King filed against The Killers is here. The suit King filed against me is here. Here's an email in which Cho's CPA and her promoter/new manager explain to me that King is the only one who can give the go ahead for Cho to pay me my commissions.

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Friday, February 23, 2007

Amended Complaint Against Margaret Cho

This was filed in Superior Court in January 2007. Everybody's in this one!

Tuesday, November 07, 2006

Surprise?

Tuesday, October 03, 2006

Oh....Medical Fetishism!


Here's Margaret's husband, dressed as an ape in a hardhat, giving a gynecological exam to a young lady in the last Art of Bleeding show, as the Robot looks on. The show looks quite educational, too. Is that Margaret disguised as the Robot? She did play the role in this video. Nah, it couldn't be. It's so tall.

But then again, the guy who was in the Big Bird suit wasn't that tall either. He kind of hunched over in the suit and raised his arm in the air and manipulated the beak with his hand. But, how would Margaret have known that? Oh.

And, also from the show, more of the new Margaret Cho!

Update #1: It was just pointed out to me that the robot has a penis. It looks erect, too!

Update #2: I wonder if Lorene shot and/or edited this video in which Margaret explains the "Art of Bleeding." Also, near the end, Margaret strips!

Update #3: Can't find it on her tour schedule but she'll be in another one of her husband's shows on Oct. 26th! Info here.

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Sunday, September 17, 2006

Medical Fetishism?

WTF is that? I guess I'll have to go see for myself on Sept. 27th at Safari Sams. Margaret Cho is starring in another one of her husband's shows. This one boasts medical fetishism and a lot of other things I've never heard of. Can't miss this one! I wonder why Margaret's not promoting it on her tour schedule.

Anyway, I hope I'm not ruining the surprise but I bet you she plays a dual role in this show. Maybe she's the safety bug or, I bet she's the Robot. Here's a video in which Margaret stars as the Robot to her husband's Ape. In it, a woman is stabbed with an ice pick and bleeds to death. She doesn't really bleed to death. It's a joke. Get it? Also, a bunch of "fetish porn nurses" fuck their blow up dolls! They don't really fuck the dolls. It's simulated anal sex. See, performing the Heimlich maneuver kind of looks like you're having anal sex...it's hard to explain. Just watch the video. Margaret wants you to. She blogged about it on her award winning blog a while ago.

Interesting career shift. Must be the new manager.

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Saturday, August 26, 2006

Update: My Amicus Curiae Letter

As luck would have it, a decision came down from a case which was appealed (Blasi vs. Marathon Ent.) that questioned the very nature of the Talent Agent Act (TAA) just prior to our hearing scheduled for July 13th in front of the Labor Commissioner. The decision said that the courts should apply "severability." In other words, if it was shown that I procured just one job, then I would have to return the commissions for that one job only; not for the entire year as it had been previously applied. Since the law is up in the air, Silva/King/Cho decided to drop the case probably because of the possibility that the amount they might recover could be severely diminshed. Next step for Margaret and I is a mediation to try to come to an agreement as to how to dissolve our Corporation.

What is happening now regarding the TAA is that the Blasi vs. Marathon decision has been appealed by both sides to the California Supreme Court which is deciding whether or not to hear the case. Marathon, the management company, is trying to get the Court to say that it's unconstitutional for personal managers to be insinuated into the Talent Agent Act (TAA) altogether. Blasi (Rosa), an actress on a TV series called Strong Medicine, wants it back to where it was before, as a draconian punitive law in which a talent can retrieve all monies paid to her/his personal manager if it can be shown that the personal manager solicited or procured just one job as well as escape the obligation to pay commissions. Many people wrote letters to petition the Court to hear the case. Along with many of those letters, updates and discussions on the subject, decidedly one-sided, can be found here.

Here is the letter I wrote to the California Supreme Court. It is an exciting, once in a lifetime opportunity, to actually be a part of the shaping of the rules that will govern the entertainment industry from now on. A silver lining of sorts; that the situation I am in might be used for good.


August 24, 2006

Office of the Clerk
California Supreme Court
350 McAllister Street
San Francisco, CA 94102


RE: Marathon Entertainment v Blasi B179819


To the Jurists of the California Supreme Court,

My name is Karen Taussig. I have been in the entertainment business since 1985. I owned a licensed talent agency until 1997 at which point I dropped the license in order to become a personal manager. Last year the TAA was used against me in a complaint filed with the Labor Commissioner. Here’s my story in two parts as it relates to the TAA.

Part I: “Why didn’t you keep your license?”

As a licensed talent agent, I discovered, nurtured, and developed many stand-up comedians. I was able to help them get enough work to make a living as well as give them the experience they needed to develop and showcase their material. I was particularly drawn to the power of and the automatic following for a strong non-traditional (i.e. female, glbt, or minority) comedic voice. My clients would include the first female Asian-American and the first Latina to star in their own respective sitcoms as well as the first Latino to do stand-up on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and the first Hispanic MTV VJ, both of whom also had network talent deals.

As some of my clients became more and more successful, I thought it wise to drop my agent’s license and become a personal manager for many reasons. Among them, I had been doing many of the duties attributed to a personal manager anyway and I was either unable or perceived to be unable to compete with or provide the opportunities the large agencies were promising some of my clients (i.e. access to major casting directors; consideration for agency packages, etc.). This seemed like the logical next step in building a team on my clients’ behalf.
A television critic asked me, “Ms. Cho, isn’t it true that the
network told you to lose weight to play the part of yourself
on your own TV show?” – Margaret Cho, I’m The One That
I Want
, Cho Taussig Productions, 2000.

It also became apparent that in order to protect my clients’ visions, I would have to become involved in producing their projects which, as a talent agent, I would not be able to do. After the sitcoms were canceled and the talent deals went nowhere, we realized that the network system was not ready with non-traditional writers and producers for my non-traditional talent. In each case, the talent’s vision and voice became compromised. In order to protect that vision, I dedicated myself to helping my clients produce their own projects. I even ended up theatrically distributing the aforementioned concert film myself after it was passed on by every indie film and distribution company. I’m The One That I Want went on to make more money per print than any movie in history and, along with 3 other concert films, has been doing very well on cable and home video.

I do not believe I would have had the flexibility to provide my uniquely talented clients with what they needed had I not been able to become their personal manager; identify myself as such; or continued to hold my talent agent’s license.

Part II: Use of the TAA (aka “plan B” and “the nuclear option”) as a sword.
We also recognize the legislature did not intend the Act to
be used as a sword to preclude representatives from their
earned commissions. - David Gurley for the Labor
Commissioner in the Determination of Controversy in
Jewel Kilcher vs. Inga Vainshtein (TAC 02-99)

In my case, the TAA was used to try to intimidate me into accepting what I deemed to be an unfavorable allocation of the assets of the company that my ex and I owned together. In addition, I was owed commissions.

These are three exact quotes from my ex-client's attorneys:

Accordingly, if our investigation concludes that you procured or negotiated even one engagement, [ex-client] would be entitled to demand that you account for and repay any and all commissions, fees, and other monies that you have received since October 2004 from or with respect to her. You would also be barred from recovering any monies from [ex-client], no matter when you received them.

As such, [attorney] and [ex-client] are now ready to move forward with what they are calling the "nuclear option": filing a complaint with the California Labor Commission regarding your booking activities on behalf of [ex-client] without a license. As you know, the consequences will be severe.

Perhaps my willingness to listen conveyed an ambiguous message to you. The negotiations are over, Karen. Please tell me to write it up or go to Plan B [filing a complaint with the Labor Commissioner].

They didn't even know whether or not I "violated the act!" The fact that I had been a talent agent and was thus most likely aware of the rules and that my ex-client had the same William Morris agent throughout didn’t even slow them down from invoking the dreaded and Draconian “Act.” I think they figured that every manager has probably violated the act and if that proves to be the case, as it was threatened, the consequences (i.e. having to return all commissions) would indeed be severe.

After countless stressful hours and tens of thousands of dollars spent in preparation for the upcoming hearing, the prospect of severability (thanks to the Marathon decision) was enough for them to drop the complaint for the time being. Many of the “incidents” in which I was accused of acting as a talent agent were unpaid appearances at non-profits like GLAAD, the ACLU and NOW, that presented my ex with awards for her activism. By the way, is that procurement? Is that something an agent should have to do?

In Conclusion

To me, it seems that something is really wrong if a "law" can be used in this way. When I went to a luncheon at The Beverly Hills Bar Association on the TAA, attorneys who had represented both sides just seemed giddy at the income potential from the poor managers who had to pay out the nose to hold onto what they earned and the ex-clients willing to gamble attorney's fees for the possibility of getting away with not only not having to pay commissions owed but actually getting back everything they paid the previous year!

I am writing this letter against my attorney’s advice because I am still in the middle of a dispute and I think they are afraid something I say here will be used against me in the litigation. I hope you review this law and see that its application to personal managers may be having a deleterious effect on the very people it was supposed to protect – the talent. By giving the power to procure only to those with an agency license, the powerful are being imbued with even more power at the expense of the independent voices. I don’t know if it’s coincidence or not but I am seeing far less voices that challenge the status quo being developed and diversity in network sitcoms is at a decade low. I, for one, am unlikely to return to this profession, for which I am most passionate; unless and until I know I am not in jeopardy under this law.

Please use this letter to add my voice of support to Marathon Entertainment’s petition to review the applicability of the rules and regulations of the Talent Agencies Act.

Thank you.
Karen Taussig

Monday, July 24, 2006

Margaret Cho, Ex-Manager Wage Nasty Battle

Maybe it'll hit the press afterall. This article is so ridiculous though. Here are some excerpts followed by my comments:

She said she's not supposed to discuss the lawsuit and made a reference to "winged monkeys" who seem to be everywhere these days at shows eager to report back to Taussig, who is suing for big money.
I'm not suing Margaret for any money at all. She was suing for me to return all the commissions she paid me for the last year up until the law was changed and she had to drop her suit. I'm just asking the court to step in and help dissolve the company we own 50-50 because we can't agree on how to do it. Maybe she's anticipating that a lawsuit is coming because she knows she owes me commissions and now she can't hide behind that weird law. Maybe someone could suggest that she pay me what she owes me so I don't have to sue?

It was the wicked witch of the east who had the flying monkeys, right? I just love it when women go after each other using gender slurs. It gives my attorney even further justification for calling our predicament a "catfight," which he did the other day. Pretty soon we'll be calling each other crazy and hysterical and the press will just have a field day.

Apparently, Cho, who has been married to Al Ridenour since 2003, wanted to do more television work and accept movie roles, which Taussig always wanted to turn down.
I was willing to give her the credit for having the integrity to turn down those auditions (not many offers, as I recall) for those stereotypically racist roles she made a career out of lampooning in her concert films (i.e. "I don't want to be a manicurist..." - Revolution). But, OK. It was me. It was also me who invested my life's savings in, and produced Bam Bam and Celeste (the movie she wrote and stars in), as well as her 4 concert films, in order for her to have a significant film and TV presence. But yes, for the record, I thought a FOX sitcom, written by someone else (hmm...that sounds familiar), in which she played her mother character, would not have been a good career move.

"She's threatening to have a movie made about me," Cho said.
Uh...no...I'm...not...doing...that.

Margaret's attorney, Howard King, just finished suing Michael Jackson on behalf of a client, for which he used the press very effectively. I'm sure that case was very good for him and his firm and I suspect more things to come out in the press about my case. I wonder if Margaret or her advisors would realize (or care?) if it turned out that she was literally stripping herself of the values and the integrity upon which her career was built.

Friday, June 23, 2006

Thank you and Congrats to Rick Siegel and Don Smiley

UPDATE 6/25: COURT FAVORS MANAGERS - from today's Variety. I didn't mention below that, along with removing the threat of having to repay all commissions I earned from Margaret for the last year, the door is now open for me to recover all the commissions she owes me!
The entertainment industry was rocked today and my attorney is about to become famous!

A law that bankrupt many managers, drove others to suicide (one as recent as last week), and was being used against me in order to force me into accepting an unfavorable distribution of Cho Taussig Productions, Inc.'s assets was changed in my favor today, just in time for my July 18th hearing with Margaret.

There is now severability. What this means for me is that, even if they do find that I violated the Talent Agency Act (which I didn't), I won't have to automatically repay the $250,000 of commissions Margaret paid me last year. I may only have to pay back commissions resulting from the actual violation (of which there is none)! The attorney who is handling my TAA case is Donald V. Smiley, the one who represented the Plaintiff in the appeal, so, I will be in the best position possible to take advantage of the implications of this new law, just in time for our July 18th hearing.

What it means for the Plaintiff, Rick Siegel, is that he may rightfully retrieve monies owed to him for the work he did for his ex-client.

I went to a conference on this law where the attorneys were giddy about how much money they make representing the talent trying to retrieve their commissions and the managers trying to hold onto them. This law they referred to as Draconian, was a goldmine for them, regardless of which side they represented.

Thank you, Rick, for the unparalled dedication to your fellow colleagues you exhibited in seeing this through the appeal process and for introducing me to your attorney. I hope your years long nightmare is coming to an end.

Thank you, Don, for helping Rick fight this and for not closing your eyes to the injustice. It is an honor to be represented by you.

Here's the opinion. Read it and rejoice! The good guys won one.

Another weird coincidence? The Judge who wrote the decision is Margaret's attorney's mom! Isn't that weird?

Thursday, April 13, 2006

The Beginning

I started booking Margaret in colleges when I had my own Talent Agency in the early 90's. She got a standing ovation at a college showcase and it was clear she would be able to make a lot of money performing on campuses. When most young comics were working for a free meal to get 10 mins. of stage time at The Improv or The Comedy Store, Margaret had an opportunity to do a full 60 minutes in front of an audience for about $1000 a show, many times a week. She worked her ass off. It isn't an easy life, driving from gig to gig and performing in front of sometimes hostile audiences. But, she got GREAT and I knew Hollywood would be blown away.

And it was. I set up a showcase for the TV networks and studios and we started taking meetings. Before long there was a bidding war for a sitcom, which would come to be named, All-American Girl, in which she would be the star.

But, something else was going on. "Annie," Margaret's manager at the time, was getting paranoid that Margaret would leave her. From her autobiographical book, I'm The One That I Want:

Annie convinced me to take a meeting with a big agency behind Karen's back. It was doubly treacherous because Annie was staying at one of Karen's employee's apartments, blowing pot smoke out of the sliding glass doors.


Goddammit if I was going to let Margaret's then manager take this deal and all my work right over to William Morris. In her words…

But Karen had a plan of her own…Karen sent in Greer, a new manager from a hot firm that she knew would impress me.

Greer convinced me to leave Annie and sign with him. Karen would still be my agent…This was a brilliant move on Karen's part. She must have known that her words would make a deeper impression on me when spoken by a man. It is horrifying to acknowledge the sexism within yourself, because then you see the enemy is not in front of you, but behind your own eyes. The reason I didn't feel worthy of the love and support Karen gave was because she was a woman, and I couldn't trust her. I had grown up with the idea that while women may make strides without men, they could only do the real work with them. Even though Karen really did everything, she had to make me think it was Greer's work that was making such an impact. ( I'm The One That I Want, Ballantine, 2000)



I continued negotiating the deal and giving "Greer" the details to relay. It was a nice feather in his cap, as he was negotiating his new employment contract with Sandy Gallin at the time. It didn't hurt that he was bringing this deal with him into the company in which his new boss would be a producer on a groundbreaking sitcom starring the hottest comic in town.


But soon, the awful truth starting sinking in. This was going to be a disaster. A 40 year old Jewish man was writing words for Margaret (then 23) who was revered by her fans for the words she had written for herself. Issues surrounding race needed more sensitivity than they were being given. The downside of doing this wrong would be devastating to Margaret's career. No one would listen to me and she was not asserting herself. I remember when she told me that one of the producers told her she had to lose weight:

My agent, Karen, called almost immediately after I hung up with Gail. She was outraged and was urging me to pull out of the show…"They can't ask you to lose weight. They can't do that! Don't let them do that! It isn't right. And if that is who they think you are, this show isn't going to work! ( I'TOTIW, Ballantine, 2000)


I was fired one week after I was notified by Disney that the pilot was being picked up. I was devastated but, on some level, oddly relieved. I didn't really expect Margaret to pull out of the sitcom but now the consequences wouldn't be my responsibility. Everyone else thought this was the beginning for Margaret, that she was on her way to superstardom. I saw dead careers. I watched as everything I thought would happen happened. Each episode alienated more of her fans. She was saying things on the show she'd never say in her comedy and allowing her ethnicity to be exploited in ways offensive to many.

After the sitcom was canceled I heard that she had to cancel a bunch of live appearance dates due to lack of ticket sales.[note: Around that time Roseanne, Brett Butler, Cybill Shepard, Ellen, and Candace Bergen all had sitcoms. It's sad to see what has happened to the representation of women in TV and comedy in this country.]

About two years later, sometime in 1996, I got a message from Margaret on my answering machine. From the book:

I wondered how my old agent Karen was doing. Once I remember calling her when I was drunk, after business hours and leaving a message on her machine: "You were right about everything…"


Two years after that, in 1998, she and I began working together again, this time, since I had dropped my agent's license, I was her manager. I watched how the stories of how she had almost died from overexercising and undereating while drinking too much and taking too many drugs trying desperately to be what she thought the TV show wanted her to be resonated with her audiences. I knew that if we could get this cautionary tale of what happens when you lose yourself and believe too much in Corporate America and the images it puts forth out to the public, it would re-inspire her old fans and bring in thousands of new ones. We took the show she named,I'm The One That I Want, to a small Off-Broadway Theatre to workshop and refine it. Although every word was Margaret's, I was at each performance, arranging, editing, re-ordering, and directing her until the show was selling out every night, getting rave reviews, and winning awards.

These are the inspiring last words from that show which would almost always insure her a standing ovation:

I am not going to die because my sitcom got canceled. I am not going to die because someone thought I was fat. I am not going to die as someone else. I'm going to live as myself and I'm going to stay here and rock the mike until the next Korean-American, fag hag, shit starter, girl comic, trash talker, comes up and takes my place. (I'm The One That I Want, Cho Taussig Productions, 2000)


We were asked to extend the run indefinitely but decided instead to take it on the road. Stacy Mark at William Morris who had convinced me she should be kept on as Margaret's agent, set me up with a bunch of promoters and it wasn't long before it was selling out 2000 seat venues. Unafraid to speak truth to power, her fearlessness resonated with many GLBT, feminist, Asian and Liberal organizations, which heaped many more honors and invitations upon her.


Along the tour, Stacy told me that HBO wanted to talk to me about taping ITOTIW for one of their comedy specials. It sounded great until I found out they wanted us to cut it to 60 minutes (it was 95) and they wanted to tape it in Aspen (uh, Aspen? Do they even have people of color in Aspen?). I also hated how the cameras in most of their comedy shows always went to the audience, as if the director was the ultimate commentator: "I think it's more important that you know this person in the audience thinks it's funny than it is to actually watch the comedian. And, by the way, look at my great camera work!"

After many sold out performances and as many standing ovations, I realized I was in the midst of a phenomenon. Not only was I convinced the world had to see this show but, I was determined to make sure they could see it uncompromised and uncensored. There was only one way to do that. In Nov. 1999, Cho Taussig Productions, Inc. was formed. We'd be equal partners, Margaret would put up the collateral for a loan that financed the production of the film and I would run the company without taking a salary.

CTP, Inc. filmed, produced, and ended up distributing the movie of the performance of ITOTIW at The Warfield in San Francisco. In it, she wore a burgundy outfit similar in color to Richard Pryor's suit in "Live on Sunset." To me, this was an homage to that great performer and film, right down to the sweaty armpits. And, we never panned the audience during the show, instead, opting to speak to them before and after the concert. These fearless Gay and Lesbian, tattooed and pierced, of mixed race and ambiguous gender fans did not represent the corporate status quo.To me, we were metaphorically and literally, as Margaret herself would soon become known for doing, giving the voiceless a voice.

"Stay on her face" became my mantra in the editing room. I wanted people watching the film to feel like they were in the concert theatre. Quick cuts, although the default in these days of limited attention spans, worked against that goal. Being at a Margaret Cho concert is probably one of the few times her fans are together with so many like-minded people in a supportive and safe, sexism, racism, and homophobic-free environment. It's a truly heady experience that, after being at so many concerts, I felt obligated to try to duplicate for the home or theatre viewer.

Now that she had her own production company, we would never again have to rely on another entity to get her words out, unfiltered, to the growing number of people who had found a new role model, a new hero.

The film made more money per print than any movie in history ($1.4M over 1 year on 9 prints).

Margaret Cho was on her way to becoming an icon.

Wednesday, December 14, 2005

Welcome to my new Blog!

This blog is not meant to bash Margaret Cho, but to keep any interested parties up-to-date on the progress of our lawsuit(s) and depositions. It may just be an interesting insight into the entertainment industry, the legal process, or just a tool to keep me sane.

Margaret filed her complaint against me on Dec. 7th, 2005. I was served Monday night at my home, after a wonderful halibut dinner my husband cooked. Margaret is suing me for all commissions she paid me last year plus the money I made from promoting her Australian tour because I allegedly acted as an "unlicensed talent agency" when she went to London and when I helped with the details for appearances on behalf of causes and non-profit organizations she said she supported. These include: GLAAD, MoveOn, PFLAG, Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund (AALDEF), ACLU, a benefit for Trev Brody (that poor kid that got gay-bashed), an AIDS benefit, and a benefit for marriage equality (Wedrock), among others. Margaret accepted no money for any of these with the exception of the GLAAD appearance, for which she received AFTRA scale, because it was televised for the first time on the new LOGO network.In addition, she is refusing to pay me the remainder of the commissions she owes me from contracts entered into while I was her manager, including her most recent book, I Have Chosen To Stay and Fight, which ironically, she dedicated to me!

Margaret's litigator, Howard King -- referred to her by Bill Silva, (her new manager as of Aug 17, 2005) -- threatened that she would do this unless I gave up all control of the concert films owned by Cho Taussig Productions, Inc. and all revenues associated with her newest concert film, Assassin. Mr. King succesfully retrieved $2.1M in commissions on behalf of Arsenio Hall from his ex-manager a while back using this same approach (Hall v. X Management, Inc). He didn't do as well for Macy Gray (Natalie Hinds p/k/a Macy Gray vs. Lori Leve). The 28 London gigs mentioned in the complaint were promoted by Bill Silva, btw.

My response, what I'm filing against her, depositions (if I'm allowed), and random thoughts as to what the relationship Margaret and I had says about contemporary feminism, and how her success and/or lack thereof serves as a commentary on sexism and racism in our media and society in general, to follow.
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